Comments on: American Exceptionalism: Part II http://www.blog4history.com/2009/09/american-exceptionalism-part-ii/ The American Experience in the Classroom Mon, 08 Mar 2010 19:33:06 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Blog 4 History: American & Civil War History » Blog Archive » To the “Enemy of… Amercan Exceptionalism” http://www.blog4history.com/2009/09/american-exceptionalism-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-12991 Blog 4 History: American & Civil War History » Blog Archive » To the “Enemy of… Amercan Exceptionalism” Tue, 06 Oct 2009 02:38:07 +0000 http://www.blog4history.com/?p=675#comment-12991 [...] finally, and in a round about way I have also addressed why I felt it important to post this comment that Levin seems to think I should have censored. I felt this person makes a legit point and has a [...] [...] finally, and in a round about way I have also addressed why I felt it important to post this comment that Levin seems to think I should have censored. I felt this person makes a legit point and has a [...]

]]> By: Richard Williams http://www.blog4history.com/2009/09/american-exceptionalism-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-12950 Richard Williams Sat, 03 Oct 2009 02:27:10 +0000 http://www.blog4history.com/?p=675#comment-12950 Marc: So what, exactly, do you mean by "Every country, region, era, people, topic, etc., is “exceptional"; that suggesting a particular culture or nation is superior to another is "divisive" or politically incorrect? Sorry, words mean things. You can't have it both ways. And the self-loathing of America, which so many academics seem to revel in, is most assuredly leftist ideology. "But my understanding is that you want history taught as the unfolding of God’s plan, so what can one say?" Absolutely and with no apologies. That understanding is very mainstream in evangelical and orthodox Christian circles and among Christian historians, though there are disagreements about the particulars. Though I have no direct quote, I believe that well-respected CW scholar, Dr. Steven Woodworth, would agree that history is "the unfolding of God’s plan." I'm a little surprised that you were so unaware of that school of thought or that you think mocking it would somehow win you some points in this discussion. See: http://oldvirginiablog.blogspot.com/2009/07/teaching-us-history-as-gods-plan.html So, what can you say? Best, RGW Marc:

So what, exactly, do you mean by “Every country, region, era, people, topic, etc., is “exceptional”; that suggesting a particular culture or nation is superior to another is “divisive” or politically incorrect? Sorry, words mean things. You can’t have it both ways.

And the self-loathing of America, which so many academics seem to revel in, is most assuredly leftist ideology.

“But my understanding is that you want history taught as the unfolding of God’s plan, so what can one say?”

Absolutely and with no apologies. That understanding is very mainstream in evangelical and orthodox Christian circles and among Christian historians, though there are disagreements about the particulars. Though I have no direct quote, I believe that well-respected CW scholar, Dr. Steven Woodworth, would agree that history is “the unfolding of God’s plan.”

I’m a little surprised that you were so unaware of that school of thought or that you think mocking it would somehow win you some points in this discussion.

See: http://oldvirginiablog.blogspot.com/2009/07/teaching-us-history-as-gods-plan.html

So, what can you say?

Best,
RGW

]]> By: Marc Ferguson http://www.blog4history.com/2009/09/american-exceptionalism-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-12947 Marc Ferguson Fri, 02 Oct 2009 21:09:11 +0000 http://www.blog4history.com/?p=675#comment-12947 Richard, Nobody is "demanding equality of outcome," whatever you mean by that. If you want to approach history, and demand that others teach it, as an exercise in flag-waving, fine. But to make the leap from my pointing out that American Exceptionalism is a concept with a history, and not an objective fact that should be the accepted and unquestioned paradigm through which American history is to be viewed, to accusing me of pushing a leftist ideology that sees all things as equal is absurd. But my understanding is that you want history taught as the unfolding of God's plan, so what can one say? Richard,
Nobody is “demanding equality of outcome,” whatever you mean by that. If you want to approach history, and demand that others teach it, as an exercise in flag-waving, fine. But to make the leap from my pointing out that American Exceptionalism is a concept with a history, and not an objective fact that should be the accepted and unquestioned paradigm through which American history is to be viewed, to accusing me of pushing a leftist ideology that sees all things as equal is absurd. But my understanding is that you want history taught as the unfolding of God’s plan, so what can one say?

]]> By: matt mckeon http://www.blog4history.com/2009/09/american-exceptionalism-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-12946 matt mckeon Fri, 02 Oct 2009 20:57:33 +0000 http://www.blog4history.com/?p=675#comment-12946 Stanley, Since his name is Kevin, not Richard, maybe you're confusing him with another student. Otherwise, right on brother. Remember, anyone that disagrees with your point of view must be a terrible person. Hang on to that. Stanley,
Since his name is Kevin, not Richard, maybe you’re confusing him with another student.

Otherwise, right on brother. Remember, anyone that disagrees with your point of view must be a terrible person. Hang on to that.

]]> By: Richard Williams http://www.blog4history.com/2009/09/american-exceptionalism-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-12940 Richard Williams Fri, 02 Oct 2009 13:16:04 +0000 http://www.blog4history.com/?p=675#comment-12940 Marc: "Every country, region, era, people, topic, etc., is “exceptional,” In a VERY broad sense, yes, but it would hardly be accurate to describe, for example, modern-day Cuba as "exceptional." (Unless you want to suggest that not having toilet paper is exceptional.) This philosophy is simply an extension of leftist ideology which demands equality of outcome. Not real world. THAT is "ideology masquerading as history." I continue to be amazed at those who regularly post on Kevin's blog and come to other blogs to criticize the host for the exact thing Kevin is so often guilty, i.e. "chip on your shoulder." Marc:

“Every country, region, era, people, topic, etc., is “exceptional,”

In a VERY broad sense, yes, but it would hardly be accurate to describe, for example, modern-day Cuba as “exceptional.” (Unless you want to suggest that not having toilet paper is exceptional.) This philosophy is simply an extension of leftist ideology which demands equality of outcome. Not real world. THAT is “ideology masquerading as history.”

I continue to be amazed at those who regularly post on Kevin’s blog and come to other blogs to criticize the host for the exact thing Kevin is so often guilty, i.e. “chip on your shoulder.”

]]> By: Stanley Wertheim http://www.blog4history.com/2009/09/american-exceptionalism-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-12939 Stanley Wertheim Fri, 02 Oct 2009 12:03:21 +0000 http://www.blog4history.com/?p=675#comment-12939 PS: Levin has banned me from his blog. He maintains that I am falsely attempting to associate him with Jacques Pluss, later an avowed Nazi and at that time recognized as a Nazi by his colleagues, when he was only a student in Pluss's class. The fact is that he was Pluss's personal teaching assistant. PS: Levin has banned me from his blog. He maintains that I am falsely attempting to associate him with Jacques Pluss, later an avowed Nazi and at that time recognized as a Nazi by his colleagues, when he was only a student in Pluss’s class. The fact is that he was Pluss’s personal teaching assistant.

]]> By: Stanley Wertheim http://www.blog4history.com/2009/09/american-exceptionalism-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-12936 Stanley Wertheim Fri, 02 Oct 2009 09:48:54 +0000 http://www.blog4history.com/?p=675#comment-12936 I stumbled across Richard Levin's web site. He seems to be an simple-minded but pretentious high school teacher who began but failed to complete a graduate education in a subject in which he aspires to expertise through the use of obscurantist psudo-intellectual jargon. He maintains that he learned a great deal about German history from a college professor who did not read or speak German, had never visited Germany, and had no degrees in history. He also maintains that in a history department filled with left-wing ideologues "not once can I remember one of them trying to influence our political views or forcing us to think a certain way about the past." In 45 years of college teaching (30 of them in the very college Levin attended), I can say without qualification that I have never encountered so naive a reaction to the relentless left-wing social and political indoctrination that since the 1970s has been the staple of liberal-arts education in American universities. I stumbled across Richard Levin’s web site. He seems to be an simple-minded but pretentious high school teacher who began but failed to complete a graduate education in a subject in which he aspires to expertise through the use of obscurantist psudo-intellectual jargon. He maintains that he learned a great deal about German history from a college professor who did not read or speak German, had never visited Germany, and had no degrees in history. He also maintains that in a history department filled with left-wing ideologues “not once can I remember one of them trying to influence our political views or forcing us to think a certain way about the past.” In 45 years of college teaching (30 of them in the very college Levin attended), I can say without qualification that I have never encountered so naive a reaction to the relentless left-wing social and political indoctrination that since the 1970s has been the staple of liberal-arts education in American universities.

]]> By: Chris http://www.blog4history.com/2009/09/american-exceptionalism-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-12931 Chris Fri, 02 Oct 2009 01:56:36 +0000 http://www.blog4history.com/?p=675#comment-12931 Richard, thanks for the support. Marc I am not misunderstanding Levin. I do not agree that "everyone" in their history was "exceptional." Stanley I was not familiar with your quarrels with Levin, and I thank you for chiming in. He is an arrogant intellectual who I have tolerated and kept my mouth shut about so often, but in these times I can no longer do so. - Chris Richard, thanks for the support. Marc I am not misunderstanding Levin. I do not agree that “everyone” in their history was “exceptional.” Stanley I was not familiar with your quarrels with Levin, and I thank you for chiming in. He is an arrogant intellectual who I have tolerated and kept my mouth shut about so often, but in these times I can no longer do so. – Chris

]]> By: Stanley Wertheim http://www.blog4history.com/2009/09/american-exceptionalism-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-12917 Stanley Wertheim Thu, 01 Oct 2009 11:41:38 +0000 http://www.blog4history.com/?p=675#comment-12917 I am hardly surprised to learn that Kevin Levin is an ideologue or that he is impatient with those who disagree with him. When he was an undergraduate student at the William Paterson University of New Jersey, where I was a professor of English, he was very much inspired by two professors in the History Department, as he acknowledges in his recent exchange with me on his blog. The first, Terry Ripmaster, was a doctrinaire, self-acknowledged communist. He taught German history, although he did not speak or read German; had never been in Germany;and had no degrees in history. I am a citizen of the Federal Republic of Germany and was appalled by ths man's ignorance. The second, Jacques Pluss, is a virulent Nazi (Look him up on Google), who was actually expelled from the National Socialist Movement for his extremism and rejected for membership by the American Nazi Party because he advocates genocide. I am hardly surprised to learn that Kevin Levin is an ideologue or that he is impatient with those who disagree with him. When he was an undergraduate student at the William Paterson University of New Jersey, where I was a professor of English, he was very much inspired by two professors in the History Department, as he acknowledges in his recent exchange with me on his blog. The first, Terry Ripmaster, was a doctrinaire, self-acknowledged communist. He taught German history, although he did not speak or read German; had never been in Germany;and had no degrees in history. I am a citizen of the Federal Republic of Germany and was appalled by ths man’s ignorance. The second, Jacques Pluss, is a virulent Nazi (Look him up on Google), who was actually expelled from the National Socialist Movement for his extremism and rejected for membership by the American Nazi Party because he advocates genocide.

]]> By: Marc Ferguson http://www.blog4history.com/2009/09/american-exceptionalism-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-12888 Marc Ferguson Tue, 29 Sep 2009 18:44:28 +0000 http://www.blog4history.com/?p=675#comment-12888 Chris, I think you may have misunderstood what Kevin is saying, and you come across as having a bit of a chip on your shoulder. Every country, region, era, people, topic, etc., is "exceptional," and the teaching of history should allow one to explore what is unique, and what is shared, between different peoples, countries, and times. However, "American Exceptionalism" is a stream of thought that has played a role in American history, has its own history, and while this role and history should be explored, "American Exceptionalism" should not be the fundamental principle through which America's history is interpreted. That is ideology masquerading as history. And I'm not sure what your point is about civil rights during the post-Civil War era, but I certainly agree that it was a disaster for the civil rights of black Americans in the South. Chris,
I think you may have misunderstood what Kevin is saying, and you come across as having a bit of a chip on your shoulder. Every country, region, era, people, topic, etc., is “exceptional,” and the teaching of history should allow one to explore what is unique, and what is shared, between different peoples, countries, and times. However, “American Exceptionalism” is a stream of thought that has played a role in American history, has its own history, and while this role and history should be explored, “American Exceptionalism” should not be the fundamental principle through which America’s history is interpreted. That is ideology masquerading as history. And I’m not sure what your point is about civil rights during the post-Civil War era, but I certainly agree that it was a disaster for the civil rights of black Americans in the South.

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