Comments on: Politically Correct Non-Myth Busting?: The Iroquois and the American Constitution http://www.blog4history.com/2009/11/politically-correct-myth-busting-the-iroquois-and-the-american-constitution/ Tue, 27 Dec 2011 05:26:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.1 By: John http://www.blog4history.com/2009/11/politically-correct-myth-busting-the-iroquois-and-the-american-constitution/comment-page-1/#comment-17370 John Thu, 04 Nov 2010 23:03:23 +0000 http://www.blog4history.com/?p=808#comment-17370 Not a shred of evidence? You can say its open to interpretation, but saying there is no evidence is dead wrong. Political correctness probably plays a huge role in how the research is spread to the public, but not on the research itself. Also, criticizing "Blogs" is much different than criticizing Donald Grinde Jr, of Weatherford (Indian Givers), the Oklahoma Law School. AP history teachers should show much better judgment, or at least a shred of proof, to their claims! Not a shred of evidence? You can say its open to interpretation, but saying there is no evidence is dead wrong. Political correctness probably plays a huge role in how the research is spread to the public, but not on the research itself. Also, criticizing “Blogs” is much different than criticizing Donald Grinde Jr, of Weatherford (Indian Givers), the Oklahoma Law School. AP history teachers should show much better judgment, or at least a shred of proof, to their claims!

]]> By: susan morris http://www.blog4history.com/2009/11/politically-correct-myth-busting-the-iroquois-and-the-american-constitution/comment-page-1/#comment-16604 susan morris Mon, 26 Jul 2010 19:11:05 +0000 http://www.blog4history.com/?p=808#comment-16604 after i read the "hemings of MontecellO" I was convinced Sally Hemings and TJ had what would have been a marriage if it could have been Sally asked for and got very personal momentos after TJ's death, the kinds of things you want if you loved the deceased. They did not get together til after Mrs Jefferson's death, there is no indication of sex with other slave women even though this evidence very much sought after by TJ's enemies, book says as far as I remember. Sally was 1/4 black Her grandmather was an African who slept with sea captain. After granma's birth, he tried to get hais daughter his blood to raise himself He tried to kidnap her to get her away from slave owner but was unsuccessful afte a couple tries. Very interesting. I have read that THmas Paine was fascinaed by the Iroquois and hung out with them frquently True? Have to read more Ben Franklin had a familiarity with them I think they did have a kind of democracy. I think a lot of people had comtact with them Itmakes sense ythat the early guys who were in proximity abd were interested in alternate political systems would study them. Iswear to god i have a memory learnin g abpout this in my6th grade history of new yoek class in the '60s an i nuts? after i read the “hemings of MontecellO” I was convinced Sally Hemings and TJ had what would have been a marriage if it could have been

Sally asked for and got very personal momentos after TJ’s death, the kinds of things you want if you loved the deceased. They did not get together til after Mrs Jefferson’s death, there is no indication of sex with other slave women even though this evidence very much sought after by TJ’s enemies, book says as far as I remember. Sally was 1/4 black Her grandmather was an African who slept with sea captain. After granma’s birth, he tried to get hais daughter his blood to raise himself He tried to kidnap her to get her away from slave owner but was unsuccessful afte a couple tries. Very interesting.

I have read that THmas Paine was fascinaed by the Iroquois and hung out with them frquently True? Have to read more Ben Franklin had a familiarity with them I think they did have a kind of democracy. I think a lot of people had comtact with them Itmakes sense ythat the early guys who were in proximity abd were interested in alternate political systems would study them.

Iswear to god i have a memory learnin g abpout this in my6th grade history of new yoek class in the ’60s an i nuts?

]]> By: Omar E. Vega http://www.blog4history.com/2009/11/politically-correct-myth-busting-the-iroquois-and-the-american-constitution/comment-page-1/#comment-13997 Omar E. Vega Wed, 27 Jan 2010 00:58:49 +0000 http://www.blog4history.com/?p=808#comment-13997 Iroquois influence in the constitution is not a myth. Only white resistence stop historians to recognize the truth. Iroquois influence in the constitution is not a myth. Only white resistence stop historians to recognize the truth.

]]> By: Richard Williams http://www.blog4history.com/2009/11/politically-correct-myth-busting-the-iroquois-and-the-american-constitution/comment-page-1/#comment-13564 Richard Williams Tue, 24 Nov 2009 03:47:29 +0000 http://www.blog4history.com/?p=808#comment-13564 Thanks Chris, I understand. Enjoy your blog. Thanks Chris, I understand. Enjoy your blog.

]]> By: Chris http://www.blog4history.com/2009/11/politically-correct-myth-busting-the-iroquois-and-the-american-constitution/comment-page-1/#comment-13561 Chris Mon, 23 Nov 2009 20:54:10 +0000 http://www.blog4history.com/?p=808#comment-13561 I agree that it is not "definitive," I think if you look at the tone of my post I was being a bit harsh on those historical figures intentionally. Chris I agree that it is not “definitive,” I think if you look at the tone of my post I was being a bit harsh on those historical figures intentionally.

Chris

]]> By: Richard G. Williams, Jr. http://www.blog4history.com/2009/11/politically-correct-myth-busting-the-iroquois-and-the-american-constitution/comment-page-1/#comment-13560 Richard G. Williams, Jr. Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:37:17 +0000 http://www.blog4history.com/?p=808#comment-13560 "Jefferson and Sally indeed had a sexual relationship that probably included rape." Chris - there is still wide disagreement over that assertion: "Although the relationship between Jefferson and Sally Hemings has been for many years, and will surely continue to be, a subject of intense interest to historians and the public, the evidence is not definitive, and the complete story may never be known." http://www.monticello.org/plantation/hemingscontro/hemings-jefferson_contro.html “Jefferson and Sally indeed had a sexual relationship that probably included rape.”

Chris – there is still wide disagreement over that assertion:

“Although the relationship between Jefferson and Sally Hemings has been for many years, and will surely continue to be, a subject of intense interest to historians and the public, the evidence is not definitive, and the complete story may never be known.”

http://www.monticello.org/plantation/hemingscontro/hemings-jefferson_contro.html

]]> By: Chris http://www.blog4history.com/2009/11/politically-correct-myth-busting-the-iroquois-and-the-american-constitution/comment-page-1/#comment-13551 Chris Mon, 23 Nov 2009 04:34:02 +0000 http://www.blog4history.com/?p=808#comment-13551 Peter, sorry, there are enough academics who support it to make it worthy of this post. If that were the criteria for posting anything, than why bother at all!!! Chris Peter, sorry, there are enough academics who support it to make it worthy of this post. If that were the criteria for posting anything, than why bother at all!!!
Chris

]]> By: Peter http://www.blog4history.com/2009/11/politically-correct-myth-busting-the-iroquois-and-the-american-constitution/comment-page-1/#comment-13550 Peter Mon, 23 Nov 2009 04:03:00 +0000 http://www.blog4history.com/?p=808#comment-13550 I'd recommend taking a look at Timothy Shannon's "Iroquois Diplomacy on the Early American Frontier." It is written in a clear and concise fashion for general audiences and at several places points out that the Iroquois influence on the Constitution myth is just that. He also takes the United States government and the NYT to task for their perpetuation of this myth. To gauge what the scholarly consensus is, I think you might need to provide a bit more evidence than a link to a lesson plan (from an educational school, not a history program) that is nearly a decade old and a link to a history blog that also professes "Now, I am not saying that I agree with this Native American/Constitution theory. While it is quite an interesting proposal I personally believe that the evidence to support it is circumstantial at best." In fact, if you take the time to read the comments on that blog, as well as research by historians working on the era (helpfully summarized in the footnotes in Shannon's volume), you will find that few academics actually support this myth (and the traction it has come from areas outside of the academy). I’d recommend taking a look at Timothy Shannon’s “Iroquois Diplomacy on the Early American Frontier.” It is written in a clear and concise fashion for general audiences and at several places points out that the Iroquois influence on the Constitution myth is just that. He also takes the United States government and the NYT to task for their perpetuation of this myth. To gauge what the scholarly consensus is, I think you might need to provide a bit more evidence than a link to a lesson plan (from an educational school, not a history program) that is nearly a decade old and a link to a history blog that also professes “Now, I am not saying that I agree with this Native American/Constitution theory. While it is quite an interesting proposal I personally believe that the evidence to support it is circumstantial at best.” In fact, if you take the time to read the comments on that blog, as well as research by historians working on the era (helpfully summarized in the footnotes in Shannon’s volume), you will find that few academics actually support this myth (and the traction it has come from areas outside of the academy).

]]>