Comments on: Oliver Stone’s New Documentary: Revisionism at its Best…

By: Michael Schack

Michael Schack — Tue, 18 May 2010 13:44:14 +0000

History has a way of being both perceptual and manipulated by the interests of certain groups. One of the great moments of World war two was the Battle of the Bulge, Germany’s final offensive Battle. Over a million soldiers were involved. The estimated numbers involved and casualties are facts. The flow of the battle can and has been changed in at least one country. The German army attacked through the Ardennes Mountains in an attempt to capture the fuels depot at Bastogne. It was here that the famous reply to a German surrender note ”Nuts” by General McAuliffe became synonymous with American Bravery and perseverance.
I read how the Russians view that battle. Although in their history books it is mentioned how the American army after being surprised was able to stop the offensive. It is here that the Russian army is given credit. The Russian army was ordered to push up the date of their offensive to take Berlin as a strategy to assist the Americans by drawing off the German troops to protect their Eastern flank. History can be very perceptual.

By: John Stoudt

John Stoudt — Sun, 31 Jan 2010 01:54:08 +0000

“What is even more ironic is that Hitler/fascism is a product of leftist ideology, i.e. a centralized command control economy, limiting freedoms, etc.” Would you mind explaining that statement? My understanding is that the Nazi party, as it grew stronger with popular support for its “law and order” stand and as it found allies in the business community, fought the Communists consistently. Yes, Communism and Nazism are both totalitarian, but I don’t see how one begat the other. Also — “What I find supremely ironic is that many if not most of the people who seek to hang the “supporter of totalitarianism” label on big business, bankers, etc. are themselves enthusiasts or apologists for Stalin, or Mao, or Ho, or Fidel or Lenin.” What is wrong with big business supporting an extreme right wing political organization, as long as profits continue and labor unions are curbed? (Just asking; I am not a fan of Hitler/Stalin/Mao.) Thanks in advance.

By: Richard G. Williams, Jr.

Richard G. Williams, Jr. — Thu, 28 Jan 2010 15:16:58 +0000

“What I find supremely ironic is that many if not most of the people who seek to hang the “supporter of totalitarianism” label on big business, bankers, etc. are themselves enthusiasts or apologists for Stalin, or Mao, or Ho, or Fidel or Lenin.”

I agree. What is even more ironic is that Hitler/fascism is a product of leftist ideology, i.e. a centralized command control economy, limiting freedoms, etc.

By: Douglas Hainline

Douglas Hainline — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 17:38:52 +0000

So there are “two historians” helping Stone. I wonder if they have published anything to refute Turner’s book on big business and the Nazis.

“Big business was behind Hitler” is a familiar Leftist meme. There is even an academic book on the subject, titled The Collapse of the Weimar Republic: Political Economy and Crisis, by David Abraham. This book turned out to be very shoddy, if not dishonest, scholarship, and was trashed by a number of scholars in the field, in particular by Henry Turner, whose own German Big Business and the Rise of Hitler, sets out the case that there was no more support from Big Business for Hitler than from any other social sector. (A favorable, but not uncritical, review of this book by Thomas Childers, author of an extensive study of who supported Hitler titled The Nazi Voter, can be found in Vol.62, No. 1 (Spring 1988) of The Business History Review.) After Hitler took power, of course, it was a different story.

A critical review of Abraham’s book — the second edition, after he had cleaned up some of the worst bits of the first — can be found in Business History Review Volume 61 (Autumn 1987), written by Peter Hayes. The best defense — but a weak one, in my opinion — of Abrahams can be found in Jon Weiner’s Historians In Trouble.

What I find supremely ironic is that many if not most of the people who seek to hang the “supporter of totalitarianism” label on big business, bankers, etc. are themselves enthusiasts or apologists for Stalin, or Mao, or Ho, or Fidel or Lenin.

By: Henry A. Kissinger, Woodrow Wilson, Diplomacy, and the Progressive Movement | Blog 4 History: American & Civil War History

Wed, 20 Jan 2010 02:23:41 +0000

[...] leads me to my final point. I was pretty pointed with Oliver Stone’s upcoming Documentary. I wonder if he will focus on how European leaders (Britain and France in particular) [...]

By: Chris

Chris — Thu, 14 Jan 2010 20:43:10 +0000

Joel, t hanks for posting. I didn’t take that comment by Stone the same way, though that is interesting I’ll re-read what he said. I took as he has studied them and talked where they walked in terms of their lives.

Chris

By: Jared Frederick

Jared Frederick — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 22:12:39 +0000

Mike,
I’m confused by the meaning of your statement.

By: Joel

Joel — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 18:49:34 +0000

When I read Stone’s statement that he had walked in the shoes of Stalin and Hitler, I laughed out loud. Does he mean he’s been hated by nearly all the free world as a vicious tyrant, completely devoid of conscience and full of hatred and paranoia to the point of genocide?

Saying something like that requires either an almost complete knowledge of the subject(s) in question, or a monumental hubris. I wonder which it is in Oliver Stone’s case…

Good stuff, Chris.

Regards,
Joel

By: Richard G. Williams, Jr.

Richard G. Williams, Jr. — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 14:48:56 +0000

Chris:

I’m not surprised. Here’s an analogy to ask your students about. If John Brown was “a freedom fighter engaging in war against slavery…” are those who bomb abortion clinics and murder abortion doctors “freedom fighters engaging in war against abortion?” I think both Brown and those who commit violence against abortion providers were/are criminals and murderers and deserve to be punished to the fullest extent of the law, including the death penalty.

What about those who are suicide bombers – are they “freedom fighters engaging in war against the decadent West?” “Justified” lawlessness is a slippery slope.

I’d be interested in how that discussion plays out.

By: Chris

Chris — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 02:40:39 +0000

Richard, interesting you bring up John Brown. Today I showed my students in my regular US history class a 50 minute documentary from the history channel on John Brown, and one that I felt was well balanced. After the Doc I asked them to write a journal reflection based on this prompt: “Was John Brown a terrorist, why or why not? 90% said no, and saw him as someone who was a freedom fighter engaging in war against slavery…
Chris