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	<title>Comments for Blog 4 History: American &amp; Civil War History</title>
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	<description>The American Experience in the Classroom</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 27 Feb 2010 05:43:34 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on AP US History &amp; Howard Zinn by Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.blog4history.com/2010/02/ap-us-history-howard-zinn/comment-page-1/#comment-14316</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Feb 2010 05:43:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog4history.com/?p=1317#comment-14316</guid>
		<description>Sammy, not going to bite.  I like this: &quot;I wonder in fact if you’ve ever tried to read the likes of Zinn or any other less than conservative historian with an open mind.&quot;  You clearly DO NOT read my blog my friend, as I use Zinn&#039;s book in my class. Which you would know.  I will leave it at that, thread done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sammy, not going to bite.  I like this: &#8220;I wonder in fact if you’ve ever tried to read the likes of Zinn or any other less than conservative historian with an open mind.&#8221;  You clearly DO NOT read my blog my friend, as I use Zinn&#8217;s book in my class. Which you would know.  I will leave it at that, thread done.</p>
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		<title>Comment on AP US History &amp; Howard Zinn by Samuel Turner</title>
		<link>http://www.blog4history.com/2010/02/ap-us-history-howard-zinn/comment-page-1/#comment-14314</link>
		<dc:creator>Samuel Turner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:45:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog4history.com/?p=1317#comment-14314</guid>
		<description>Chris,

I read your blog and I find that you&#039;re right -- undoubtedly far right. That&#039;s okay. When you retire you can join the John Birch Society, where you will also be undoubtedly welcome. I think perhaps that you have missed my point. The reason why college professors use Zinn is precisely because they are concerned that their students are &quot;students of American History and critical thinkers.&quot;

And in Zinn&#039;s own words: &quot;I would not have been a historian if I thought that it would become my professional duty to never emerge from the past, to study long-gone events and remember them only for their uniqueness, not connecting them to events going on in our time.&quot; -- Howard Zinn (2007) 

Relax. Take a deep breath. Be secure in the fact that there are other right wing conservatives to support your rhetoric and you can be what you seem to need most: &quot;to be right&quot; and impress the world with your knowledge. By the way, if you hope to render with any seriousness your point of view with the less than conservative crowd -- try getting the facts and spout less of your personal rhetoric. I am not impressed that you wrote three more blogs filled with your own opinions -- I wonder in fact if you&#039;ve ever tried to read the likes of Zinn or any other less than conservative historian with an open mind.

But alas, I still defend your right to express yourself even if I do not agree with you. The point remains (at least for a little longer) we can both express our opinions without fear of persecution. Oh wait.... is that a Homeland Security Van that just pulled into my yard?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris,</p>
<p>I read your blog and I find that you&#8217;re right &#8212; undoubtedly far right. That&#8217;s okay. When you retire you can join the John Birch Society, where you will also be undoubtedly welcome. I think perhaps that you have missed my point. The reason why college professors use Zinn is precisely because they are concerned that their students are &#8220;students of American History and critical thinkers.&#8221;</p>
<p>And in Zinn&#8217;s own words: &#8220;I would not have been a historian if I thought that it would become my professional duty to never emerge from the past, to study long-gone events and remember them only for their uniqueness, not connecting them to events going on in our time.&#8221; &#8212; Howard Zinn (2007) </p>
<p>Relax. Take a deep breath. Be secure in the fact that there are other right wing conservatives to support your rhetoric and you can be what you seem to need most: &#8220;to be right&#8221; and impress the world with your knowledge. By the way, if you hope to render with any seriousness your point of view with the less than conservative crowd &#8212; try getting the facts and spout less of your personal rhetoric. I am not impressed that you wrote three more blogs filled with your own opinions &#8212; I wonder in fact if you&#8217;ve ever tried to read the likes of Zinn or any other less than conservative historian with an open mind.</p>
<p>But alas, I still defend your right to express yourself even if I do not agree with you. The point remains (at least for a little longer) we can both express our opinions without fear of persecution. Oh wait&#8230;. is that a Homeland Security Van that just pulled into my yard?</p>
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		<title>Comment on AP US History &amp; Howard Zinn by Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.blog4history.com/2010/02/ap-us-history-howard-zinn/comment-page-1/#comment-14272</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:53:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog4history.com/?p=1317#comment-14272</guid>
		<description>Samuel, if you have read my blog and in particular the following posts, you would not have to ask such ignorant questions:

http://www.blog4history.com/2009/12/teaching-social-justice-in-the-classroom/
http://www.blog4history.com/2009/01/howard-zinn-in-the-classroom/
http://www.blog4history.com/2009/01/final-thoughts-on-zinn-and-history/
http://www.blog4history.com/2009/12/teaching-social-justice-in-the-classroom/

Why do liberal teachers and universities use Zinn? The fact that you have not the slightest clue is itself telling. So, once again, it is because they agree with him (his activism) and SEEM more interested in creating social activists like themselves, instead of students of American History and critical thinkers. At best, Zinn was a historian who could not separate his politics from the past, and therefore committed himself to judging the past based on his own world view. Presentism.

For a great breakdown on just some of Zinn&#039;s inaccuracies in his book, I refer you here:
http://hnn.us/articles/4370.html

Chris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Samuel, if you have read my blog and in particular the following posts, you would not have to ask such ignorant questions:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.blog4history.com/2009/12/teaching-social-justice-in-the-classroom/" rel="nofollow">http://www.blog4history.com/2009/12/teaching-social-justice-in-the-classroom/</a><br />
<a href="http://www.blog4history.com/2009/01/howard-zinn-in-the-classroom/" rel="nofollow">http://www.blog4history.com/2009/01/howard-zinn-in-the-classroom/</a><br />
<a href="http://www.blog4history.com/2009/01/final-thoughts-on-zinn-and-history/" rel="nofollow">http://www.blog4history.com/2009/01/final-thoughts-on-zinn-and-history/</a><br />
<a href="http://www.blog4history.com/2009/12/teaching-social-justice-in-the-classroom/" rel="nofollow">http://www.blog4history.com/2009/12/teaching-social-justice-in-the-classroom/</a></p>
<p>Why do liberal teachers and universities use Zinn? The fact that you have not the slightest clue is itself telling. So, once again, it is because they agree with him (his activism) and SEEM more interested in creating social activists like themselves, instead of students of American History and critical thinkers. At best, Zinn was a historian who could not separate his politics from the past, and therefore committed himself to judging the past based on his own world view. Presentism.</p>
<p>For a great breakdown on just some of Zinn&#8217;s inaccuracies in his book, I refer you here:<br />
<a href="http://hnn.us/articles/4370.html" rel="nofollow">http://hnn.us/articles/4370.html</a></p>
<p>Chris</p>
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		<title>Comment on AP US History &amp; Howard Zinn by Samuel Turner</title>
		<link>http://www.blog4history.com/2010/02/ap-us-history-howard-zinn/comment-page-1/#comment-14269</link>
		<dc:creator>Samuel Turner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:02:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog4history.com/?p=1317#comment-14269</guid>
		<description>Chris, what&#039;s with you and Zinn anyway?  You talk about inaccuracies and half truths and then you list an entire set of universities that use his work. I don&#039;t mind that you don&#039;t like Zinn but that list suggests that you&#039;re right and all those schools and college professors are wrong?  I have a hard time believing all of this. It&#039;s clear that you don&#039;t agree and I will support your right to believe any way that you choose.  But this right and wrong thing seems rather arrogant to me. It makes me wonder if you&#039;ve studied Zinn&#039;s work at all, what less makes you an authority on the subject.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, what&#8217;s with you and Zinn anyway?  You talk about inaccuracies and half truths and then you list an entire set of universities that use his work. I don&#8217;t mind that you don&#8217;t like Zinn but that list suggests that you&#8217;re right and all those schools and college professors are wrong?  I have a hard time believing all of this. It&#8217;s clear that you don&#8217;t agree and I will support your right to believe any way that you choose.  But this right and wrong thing seems rather arrogant to me. It makes me wonder if you&#8217;ve studied Zinn&#8217;s work at all, what less makes you an authority on the subject.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Reassessing Franklin D. Roosevelt&#8217;s New Deal Policies by Nick Pilcher</title>
		<link>http://www.blog4history.com/2010/01/reassessing-franklin-d-roosevelts-new-deal-policies/comment-page-1/#comment-14264</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Pilcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:36:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog4history.com/?p=1066#comment-14264</guid>
		<description>i don&#039;t think he saved jobs but i am pretty sure he thought that the united states was capable of taking care of themselves when in fact they weren&#039;t and he contradicted his beliefs which i why it took so long to get government relief</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i don&#8217;t think he saved jobs but i am pretty sure he thought that the united states was capable of taking care of themselves when in fact they weren&#8217;t and he contradicted his beliefs which i why it took so long to get government relief</p>
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		<title>Comment on Karl Marx and the American Civil War by Michael Eissinger</title>
		<link>http://www.blog4history.com/2009/05/karl-marx-and-the-american-civil-war/comment-page-1/#comment-14227</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Eissinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:40:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog4history.com/?p=584#comment-14227</guid>
		<description>Since the US Citizenship test will take either &quot;Slavery&quot; or &quot;States Rights&quot; as the answer to why the south seceded, this point is important. For years, the importance of slavery as the root cause of the war has been buried under the rhetoric of &quot;states rights,&quot; even though it was the right of the states of allow slavery to which they refer. 

That said, one of the best books I&#039;ve used in freshmen US history classes is Charles Dew&#039;s &quot;Apostles of Disunion&quot; in which Dews clearly demonstrates that, throughout the South, every southern knew that slavery was the issue before the states broke their ties with the Union. The articles by Marx (and others) demonstrate that this was well known, as the cause of the war, around the world. Marx is writing in England to a European paper about the causes of the war.  There&#039;s even a better, more clearly stated article that Marx wrote, at about the same time, for the New York Daily Tribune (it&#039;s included in the Penguin &quot;Dispatches&quot; compilation). So, should you include this evidence in an AP history class -- definitely because it addresses the attempt by some to rewrite history to cloud the real reasons behind this war. This was only about states&#039; rights as those rights pertained to slavery, and that the &quot;peculiar institution&quot; of slavery and it&#039;s continuation, into the future, was the sole reason for the South&#039;s attempt to dissolve the union.

You can then tie this to the expunged material of the Declaration of Independence, the provisions institutionalizing slavery in the Constitution, the various &quot;compromises,&quot; the role slavery played when a bunch of Mexican citizens (southern immigrants to Mexico) committed treason rather than free their slaves, thus creating the republic of Texas as a slaveholding nation (because the US couldn&#039;t bring it in as a slave state until there was another free state with which to balance it).  In fact, there is so much in US History prior to 1877 that can ONLY make sense if you keep slavery at the heart of the question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since the US Citizenship test will take either &#8220;Slavery&#8221; or &#8220;States Rights&#8221; as the answer to why the south seceded, this point is important. For years, the importance of slavery as the root cause of the war has been buried under the rhetoric of &#8220;states rights,&#8221; even though it was the right of the states of allow slavery to which they refer. </p>
<p>That said, one of the best books I&#8217;ve used in freshmen US history classes is Charles Dew&#8217;s &#8220;Apostles of Disunion&#8221; in which Dews clearly demonstrates that, throughout the South, every southern knew that slavery was the issue before the states broke their ties with the Union. The articles by Marx (and others) demonstrate that this was well known, as the cause of the war, around the world. Marx is writing in England to a European paper about the causes of the war.  There&#8217;s even a better, more clearly stated article that Marx wrote, at about the same time, for the New York Daily Tribune (it&#8217;s included in the Penguin &#8220;Dispatches&#8221; compilation). So, should you include this evidence in an AP history class &#8212; definitely because it addresses the attempt by some to rewrite history to cloud the real reasons behind this war. This was only about states&#8217; rights as those rights pertained to slavery, and that the &#8220;peculiar institution&#8221; of slavery and it&#8217;s continuation, into the future, was the sole reason for the South&#8217;s attempt to dissolve the union.</p>
<p>You can then tie this to the expunged material of the Declaration of Independence, the provisions institutionalizing slavery in the Constitution, the various &#8220;compromises,&#8221; the role slavery played when a bunch of Mexican citizens (southern immigrants to Mexico) committed treason rather than free their slaves, thus creating the republic of Texas as a slaveholding nation (because the US couldn&#8217;t bring it in as a slave state until there was another free state with which to balance it).  In fact, there is so much in US History prior to 1877 that can ONLY make sense if you keep slavery at the heart of the question.</p>
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		<title>Comment on AP US History &amp; Howard Zinn by Richard G. Williams, Jr.</title>
		<link>http://www.blog4history.com/2010/02/ap-us-history-howard-zinn/comment-page-1/#comment-14205</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard G. Williams, Jr.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 18:52:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog4history.com/?p=1317#comment-14205</guid>
		<description>Chris - this leads, in my mind, to a fundamental question about teaching American history. What do parents want their children taught? I would want my children taught the truth, of course. But I do not believe that history can be taught in a vacuum - despite the best efforts. While I want my children taught the truth and to not hide or ignore our failures, I want them taught that America is a good country, the best on earth and was founded my men, despite their shortcomings, who loved liberty and freedom and wanted that for future generations and that they sacrificed much to obtain that for the rest of us. I want them taught American Exceptionalism without apology.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris &#8211; this leads, in my mind, to a fundamental question about teaching American history. What do parents want their children taught? I would want my children taught the truth, of course. But I do not believe that history can be taught in a vacuum &#8211; despite the best efforts. While I want my children taught the truth and to not hide or ignore our failures, I want them taught that America is a good country, the best on earth and was founded my men, despite their shortcomings, who loved liberty and freedom and wanted that for future generations and that they sacrificed much to obtain that for the rest of us. I want them taught American Exceptionalism without apology.</p>
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		<title>Comment on AP US History &amp; Howard Zinn by Will Hickox</title>
		<link>http://www.blog4history.com/2010/02/ap-us-history-howard-zinn/comment-page-1/#comment-14198</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Hickox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 03:18:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog4history.com/?p=1317#comment-14198</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not really sure you need to read a lot into it. Zinn&#039;s books were huge bestsellers (at least for the history market) so in that sense it&#039;s good business for them to capitalize on his death with a full-page &quot;dedication.&quot; A standard tactic for booksellers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not really sure you need to read a lot into it. Zinn&#8217;s books were huge bestsellers (at least for the history market) so in that sense it&#8217;s good business for them to capitalize on his death with a full-page &#8220;dedication.&#8221; A standard tactic for booksellers.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Teaching American History by Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.blog4history.com/2007/12/teaching-american-history/comment-page-1/#comment-14187</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 01:58:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog4history.com/?p=240#comment-14187</guid>
		<description>Carrie thank you that link works nicely!
Chris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carrie thank you that link works nicely!<br />
Chris</p>
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		<title>Comment on Teaching American History by Carrie</title>
		<link>http://www.blog4history.com/2007/12/teaching-american-history/comment-page-1/#comment-14139</link>
		<dc:creator>Carrie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:04:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog4history.com/?p=240#comment-14139</guid>
		<description>Chris:  I know this is an old post, but if you hadn&#039;t already found it...I located the article mentioned by John Maass.  It is available as one of the pages archived by the Internet Archive project. http://web.archive.org/web/20060909091343/http://www2.oakland.edu/oujournal/files/wi2006_unpopularity.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris:  I know this is an old post, but if you hadn&#8217;t already found it&#8230;I located the article mentioned by John Maass.  It is available as one of the pages archived by the Internet Archive project. <a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20060909091343/http://www2.oakland.edu/oujournal/files/wi2006_unpopularity.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://web.archive.org/web/20060909091343/http://www2.oakland.edu/oujournal/files/wi2006_unpopularity.pdf</a></p>
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